I watched that exchange and wondered why oh why didn't he question her about the Palin's connection to the Alaska Independence Party??

Michelle Bachman represents the very scariest fringe of American politics, those who ironically go on the most unAMerican activity of searching out those whose thoughts are "un American". She, of course, is up for re-election, and apparently her race is tightening. I don't know much about this man, but here is the Democrat's website who is opposing her, and apparently starting to give Michelle Bachman a fight-- Tinklenberg 08. I plan to contribute.

same thing dawned on me. To me, the only anti-Americans would be (by definition) either secessionists or separatists. Todd Palin, anyone?

you know, I think he was smarter not to bring up the Independence Party. Instead of putting her on the defensive or trying to come across as partisan he calmly, coolly teased the insanity out of her. I think this will be much more effective in showing how dangerous these people really are than if he had tried play a game of who did what when.

**********ATTEMPTED SATIRE***********

And lo, as I walked through the garden alone, while the dew was still on the roses, He appeared to me and He walked with me and He talked with me and He told me that I am His own. When He spoke unto me, I knew that He was the True Messiah and that all others were false.

The True Messiah is not "patriotic;" that would be far beneath him. To accuse Him of such parochial tendencies would be a great insult. He loves all of humanity, yea, he adores even the birds and the bees, and yea, even the rats and the pigs and the fleas. We are all His creatures.

With His wondrous ways, He will quiet the evil voices of even the most power lusting tyrants in all of Creation, simply by speaking unto them, as He spake unto me. He will perform His miracles without demeaning them or harming them; He has only but to speak unto them and they will see His true light shine forth as an epiphany. He needs no burning Bush, He needs no rod to tap on a rock to bring forth pure water for all to drink and pure air for all to breathe. He needs only to make His benign Presence known and all will see the beauty of His Truth. He will cure the ill, the blind will walk and the lame will see! May His Holy Name be praised by all, for all eternity.

I shall now go and commune with the (Holy) spirits.

*************ATTEMPTED SATIRE**************

Dan(Miller)

This woman is an embarrassment to Minnesota. Those that voted for her must have been smoking something really loaded with acid or something. Hopefully we get it right this time around. Seriously. Is this the 1950s?

I heard that her opponent has raised 30,000 dollars since the Hardball interview ran 4.5 hours ago!

It's easy to dismiss her as a loony. But unfortunately, she's not. McCain's new print mailers ask the question: "who is the real obama?" this intentional "otherizing" of people who do not agree with you is disheartening and deeply disturbing to me. next stop: scapegoating.

Well, Obama has associated with Wright and Ayers and Dohrn, and they aren't exactly pro-American. I mean, what part of "God Damn America" is the patriotic part? That being said, Bachmann's statements were pretty creepy.

what I wondered watching this woman was just what she thinks Obama's evil, anti-American master plan might be. I was dying for Matthews to just come out and ask, "If he's so anti-American, why in your opinion do you think he wants to be president?"

I would say I am ashamed to be living in Minnesota right now, but honestly I (almost!) wish I was living in her district SO I could bang the drum, rally cry and most importantly VOTE HER BIGOTED, FACIST *** OUT OF OFFICE!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have some disturbing new information about Rep. Bachman.

Remember, the Liberals (aka Democrats) did their best to subvert an ongoing war. The terrorists themselves were encouraged by the actions and rhetoric of these clueless libs.

Plenty Republicans were against the war, clueless Jon.

Bachmann has obviously been reading far too much Ann Coulter. The wonderful Ms. Coulter has repeatedly stated that ALL Democrats, ALL liberals should be arrested and tried for treason.

While I was too young to understand what was happening, I watched Ed Murrow's dismembering of McCarthy. I remember my parents actually taking deep breaths and wondering between themselves if Murrow was a communist and how long it would be till they threw him in jail - along with all the people at CBS. It wasn't really until I was in college that I came to appreciate what had taken place on that program.

As was predicted, McCain and the Reps are pulling out all the stops. It's hard to imagine just what they won't say or do to turn the numbers around.
While conventional Rovian wisdom says that negative works, I sincerely hope that all this crap blows up in McCain's face. I certainly am not predicting it, but I would flat out love to see an all out landslide for Obama. I would love to see a whole bunch of Red states turn Blue come November 4th. I'd love to see McCain beaten so badly that his embarrassment renders him speechless.

Dan (Miller) is hung up on the notion that Obama's devotees consider him to be the second coming. Not so. He is just such a refreshing change from the limited mentality of Bush, Cheney, McCain, etal. We may have a president who actually uses his mind. I know that's anathema to most conservatives. They don't want anybody in the WH who thinks. They just want the wild west cowboy who shoots from the hip, and then foregoes the questions. Hell, if everybody's dead, you don't need no stinkin' questions.

Bar and all the McCainiacs can harp on Ayers and the rest until the cows come home, in the waning hope that some of that shit will stick. It won't. You can't make shit out of thin air.

B

Last I checked it was legal to be anti-american in america, so I don't see what there is to investigate. As a voter it's your job to figure these things out and if you think a politician is anti-american then don't vote for him, if you think that's important. Aside from that, they can worship Kali and eat monkey brains and burn the flag and they're only accountable to the voters.

Dave

"Dan (Miller) is hung up on the notion that Obama's devotees consider him to be the second coming."

And yet I only hear that talk from the right.

Baritone, you said:
"We may have a president who actually uses his mind. I know that's anathema to most conservatives... Hell, if everybody's dead, you don't need no stinkin' questions."
You are so right, and, Bogey was one of those that fought McCarthy. Thank you for your strong words. I have felt very alone, living in a "Red" state (that may go blue). The idea the neocons are mindless Pavolovians is one I have held for a long time (pre-Regan) and am glad a goodly slice of America is beginning to understand and is DOING something about it. That is most heartening....

Barbara Barnett:
Thank you for this article. I saw the Hardball sequence and am so pleased you wrote this.

El Bitcho seays: "Dan (Miller) is hung up on the notion that Obama's devotees consider him to be the second coming."
I have been a lifelng Democrat. All along, I have seldom found a Republican candidate that I could support. I was not thrilled about Obama getting the nod, I wanted Biden or Richardson. Until VPs were chosen, I would have voted for McCain. If McCain had chosen almost anyone else, I probably would have voted for him. But Palin is so far beyond the Pale that it would be impossible for me to vote for McCain. If that is what he wants, he sure isn't the guy I thought he was. And so, come 11/4 I will hold my nose and vote for Obama, whose saving grace is Biden.

actually I didn't write that jamminstue. hence my use of quotation marks. easy on the white wine spritzer or whatever else you have been taking to start your weekend

"Dan (Miller) is hung up on the notion that Obama's devotees consider him to be the second coming."

And yet I only hear that talk from the right.

Dead on, EB.

Everyone knows Louis Farrakhan is a lifelong Republican...

Clavos,

You know a lot about this Farakhan guy and put a lot of stock in what he says, are you a Black Muslim?

Isn't it funny that to criticize one's country's policies in any way, shape or form makes one anti-patriotic? That coming out for an unjust war makes on anti-patriotic? That just being a liberal makes on anti-patriotic? When, of course, the very definition of liberal is the most patriotic one can be? I find it so ironic, yes, ironic, that speaking one's mind, becomes unpatriotic.

And Dan, for a supposedly intelligent, educated man, your attempt at satire was so unfunny as to be pathetic. Not one person I know who supports Obama sees him as a Christ figure or the second coming. The fact that we support him is nothing to be made fun of. The fact that we are voting FOR him, as opposed to AGAINST him (rather than FOR McCain, as you Republicans seem to be doing) makes you go all weird in the head. Your satire was absurd.

Why do you Republicans seem to think you have a lock on patriotism? Why, in a country founded on free speech, is it no okay to speak out against a government that is taking away our rights to privacy and free speech? Read the Bill of Rights. Read the Consitution. Get over yourselves. Questioning a man's patriotism because one THINKS a man is a, gasp! liberal is so downright silly as to be completely unnewsworthy. I don't know why Chris Matthews even had her on television...

Our cup runneth over with irony this fine morning.

First, Lisa writes:

The fact that we support him is nothing to be made fun of.

Wherein she is ready, even eager to suppress Dan(Miller)'s First Amendment rights; and then in a fit of supreme irony, she flagellates him severely about the head and shoulders with HER First Amendment rights.

O, frabjous day!

That kind of "liberalism" the world can do without. Ominously, it's not atypical these days; particularly among the self-proclaimed "intelligentsia" of the Democratic party.

I just donated to Michelle Bachman's opponent's campaign fund. I want to believe that the Republican association game is not going to work this time. Some Republicans (note, not all) have no integrity and no shame.

The anti-American charges that are flying about now are, of course, part of McCain's and the RNC's desparate attempts to chip away at Obama's lead in the polls. No doubt some will believe it - say the woman at the McCain rally who said that Obama's an Arab.

It is the same thing that happened back in the 60s. Anyone who spoke out against the war in Vietnam or who were active in and/or supported the civil rights movement were branded as "anti-American."

The RNC, McCain and his campaign apparently consider it more important that they win in November at any cost (exactly, BTW, what Dave Nalle stated in a recent comment on another thread) than to promote a less divided nation.

Quite frankly, their tactics could lead to violence. There is, IMO, more heat coming out of this campaign than any in recent memory - probably dating back to the Nixon era.

I have always been angered by anti-American charges like those emerging now. Just as Lisa alludes to above - the right to criticize our government and its policies are at the very heart of our constitution. Yet there are those who claim that to do so is unpatriotic.

How soon people forget. It was "unpatriotic" to dump tea into Boston harbor. It ultimately was the British Parliament's and King George's unwillingness to respond - except ultimately with violence - to the protestations of the colonists that led to our revolution.

B

I have to point out that accusations of anti-americanism are hardly the same as accusations of communism. Being anti-american is a pretty vague and subjective accusation. That's why I'd never make it and why none but the very simpleminded ever do. It's much better to level a specific and factually sustainable charge at an enemy. In the case of Obama accusations of being a marxist, communist or socialist are far more effective than calling him anti-american. He's not anti-american, he just thinks America should be a different kind of country than many of us do. Some of us want a nation based on the liberal values of the Declaration of Independence and the founding fathers. Obama prefers one based on the illiberal values of the Communist Manifesto.

Dave

Dave closes his eyes and fathoms Obamas innermost thoughts:

he just thinks America should be a different kind of country than many of us do. Some of us want a nation based on the liberal values of the Declaration of Independence and the founding fathers. Obama prefers one based on the illiberal values of the Communist Manifesto.

How does he do it? What gives Dave this amazing power to read peoples minds? Is he a mystic? A psychic?

Or is he just full of BS?

Hell, sometimes I'm anti American.

In most disputes between the US and Mexico, I side with the land of my birth; it is my cultural patria.

The great thing about the un-american game is that any number can play.

Some, for example, might have serious doubts about Dave Nalles loyalty, patriotism and allegiance to America.

Wasn't Dave born in some foreign country, after all?

Doesn't Dave subscribe to Milton Freidmans notions, and wasn't Freidman a disciple of Strauss, an AUSTRIAN, for crying out loud?

Of course, I personally would never have such doubts about Dave, but the more impressionable among BCs readers might be swayed by such arguments.

So, I have a solution, Dave. Just sign this Loyalty Pledge and send it in:

---------------------clip--------------------

I, Dave Nalle, swear that I am not the agent of any foreign government or ideology, and that I am eternally loyal to the USA.

(signed)


Dave Nalle

---------------------clip--------------------

There! Just clip it out and send it in.

How does he do it? What gives Dave this amazing power to read peoples minds? Is he a mystic? A psychic?

No, Bliffle. I just actually pay attention to what people like Obama do and say. Take the blinders off and you'll see it too.

As for your loyalty oath, feel free to sign it yourself. I'm loyal to ideas not geography or states unless they earn my loyalty by pursuing the ideals I believe in.

Dave

Bachmann should be censured for McCarthyism

Michelle Bachmann's interview on "Hardball" Friday night served us all as an expose of both Michelle Bachmann AND the sleazy way in which the McCain/Palin ticket is inciting this kind of venom in the "base" that has hijacked the Republican party.

Please email Nancy Pelosi to call for Bachmann to be censured. Tell all of your friends to do the same.

In the interests of a future for the Republican Party, Republicans should be particularly eager to respond.

And I never get tired of quoting Dr. Johnson (who was later recycled by Bob Dylan):

PATRIOTISM IS THE LAST REFUGE OF SCOUNDRELS.

"Please email Nancy Pelosi to call for Bachmann to be censured. Tell all of your friends to do the same."

Way to support that "Freedom of Speech"! Yup. awesome consistency there. Another great demonstration of why, among the Left, Freedom is a reserved thing for only those that agree with them.

How does he do it? What gives Dave this amazing power to read peoples minds? Is he a mystic? A psychic?

No, Bliffle. I just actually pay attention to what people like Obama do and say. Take the blinders off and you'll see it too.

As for your loyalty oath, feel free to sign it yourself. I'm loyal to ideas not geography or states unless they earn my loyalty by pursuing the ideals I believe in.

Dave

Bachmann should be censured for McCarthyism

Thou shalt not have a politically incorrect opinion. - the new 11th commandment

Dave

When I lived in Minnesota, 6th District elections were hard fought. That Rep. Bachmann held a GOP seat in the Democratic sweep of the lower house two years ago indicates that she probably accurately represents the 6th District, and the feelings of lots of its voters.

So unless someone chooses to identify themselves as living in the northern exurbs of the Twin Cities, the comments here read like a lot of ousiders whining.

She can have any opinion she wants, Dave. But as a member of the government and a person in power, her calling anyone who doesn't believe as she does "anti-American" is simply unacceptable.

Sorry that I've neglected this conversation (of necessity today) and I'm just getting caught up reading the thread of comments.

(Chag sameach, Ruvy.)

Censured for McCarthyism. Heh.

#21

Farrakhan?! Really? Ha ha ha. Give me a second to wipe away the tear.

Sorry, I didn't know you were casting your net that wide. Could you find no videos of drunken homeless? Can't believe a preacher would say something like that, and of course, they never use metaphors.

Is that the genesis of this silliness everyone is referring to because I have never seen nor heard it attributed before now. That video looks to have been added last week, but this Messiah talk has been going on for a while. Got anything older?

btw, Farrahkan is so far to left he may well be closer to the right, which I identified not Republicans, than the center

Clavos,

something is running over all right: the bullshit meter. Lisa's opinion of Dan's attempted and failed satire is no suppression of his First Amendment right. Not wanting to hear something is not the same as laws enacted by Congress. I guess the Bill of Rights wasn't on the Asst. Politics Editor test.

Dave confesses:

I'm loyal to ideas not geography or states unless they earn my loyalty by pursuing the ideals I believe in.

Gasp!

Dave confesses that he's NOT loyal to "geography or states". Including the USA I presume!

Shocking!

Light the torches!

Get out the lynching rope!

Looks like we've found an unpatriotic disloyal fake American!

Well Clav, you have a perspective that many don't. You can see how the U.S. may be wrong in its positions and its actions better than some.

I am curious about just what sources Dave has regarding his take on Obama? I haven't read everything he's written. I've not read or heard every speech he's given, but nothing I've read or heard would lead me to believe that Obama is a communist waiting to spring. Certainly, Obama has socialist leanings, he is certainly a leftist in some regards.

However, the feeling and fear of some is that if elected Obama will in fact govern from a more centrist position similar to Clinton's. I guess we won't know unless and until he takes office.


When supposed "super-patriots" start spouting things like "my country, right or wrong," as they often did in the 60s and 70s, it just reinforces the notion that people in other countries have about our collective stupidity and arrogance.

Most citizens of other countries rightly maintain a sense of national pride, but many also are aware of the fact that we live, moreso now than at any time in history, in a world community. That there must be give and take and that other people have interests that may or may not be in concert with their own. I ain't saying it's all sweetness and light. The world is still rampant with ignorance and greed - with religious and cultural bias, but given the much greater possibility of total annihilation owing to the number and proliferation of WMDs, we must give up some of our jingoistic tendencies and work more with the rest of the world's nations than against them. Even if they "don't like us very much." To believe that is neither unpatriotic nor anti-American.

B

Dave Re post 15 you said:

"Last I checked it was legal to be anti-american in america, so I don't see what there is to investigate."


You oughta know bubba. :)

Boy, I hope Dave knows a quick way out of Dodge - er - Austin. The NSA's listeners (and readers) are probably dispatching a rendition team as I write.

"Welcome to Bulgaria Mr. Nalle."

blif,

Dave should have just signed and kept his own council with that "loyal[ty] to ideas" stuff.

B

Barbara,

She can have any opinion she wants, Dave. But as a member of the government and a person in power, her calling anyone who doesn't believe as she does "anti-American" is simply unacceptable.

You've missed my point entirely, here (along with the rest of the crowd), and the fact that you know little about Minnesota politics is woefully obvious from your comments.

To repeat: When I lived in Minnesota, 6th District elections were hard fought. That Rep. Bachmann held a GOP seat in the Democratic sweep of the lower house two years ago indicates that she probably accurately represents the 6th District, and the feelings of lots of its voters.

Michele Bachmann was elected to represent the voters in her district. That is the sole issue here. What outsiders like you think is acceptable behavior is just plain irrelevant. If the voters in the Minnesota 6th toss her out in November, then it will have been proof that what she said or did in representing her constituents was unacceptable.

It's really that simple.

Oh yes, Barb...

moadím l'simHá

El Bicho, @#42 sez:

Lisa's opinion of Dan's attempted and failed satire is no suppression of his First Amendment right.

Perhaps you missed this little gem:

The fact that we support him is nothing to be made fun of.

This is not simply an opinion of his scintillating satire; she's calling for him to stop making fun of Obama's supporters. To me, that's an attempt to deny Dan(Miller) his right to free speech, though admittedly, she has neither the authority nor power to enforce her silly demand.

And yet, ironically, she proceeds to whine that being called an epithet because of her political opinion is an infringement of her right to free speech, even though no one has suggested she stop expressing her opinion, as she did to Dan(Miller).

Of course, I could be wrong; English, after all, is not my first language; I guess I could have misread her self righteousness. Quizás estoy equivocado, pero lo dudo.

Your bullshit meter is running over from your own BS, EB, not mine.

"Of course, I could be wrong"

at least you got that part right.

"she's calling for him to stop making fun of Obama's supporters."

Yes, she is, but since when did a request by an individual not to be made fun of become equal to a law enacted by Congress?

And no where in that comment did she state Dan was infringing on her rights. If you are going to start making stuff up, it's obviously time to move on.

"Of course, I could be wrong"

at least you got that part right.

This from a guy who chose a moniker that means "the penis."

...since when did a request by an individual not to be made fun ofbecome equal to a law enacted by Congress?

Where did I equate her demand with a law? Here's what I actually said:

Wherein she is ready, even eager to suppress Dan(Miller)'s First Amendment rights

Then you say:

And no where in that comment did she state Dan was infringing on her rights

But, she did. Right here:

Why, in a country founded on free speech, is it no okay to speak out against a government that is taking away our rights to privacy and free speech?

Clav,

Thanks. However, I have pretty much given up on logical discourse for a while -- although it occasionally slips through, inadvertently -- and have decided that since it doesn't work, irritating the Hell out of some people is more fun. Every now and then, I succeed.

Satan, and Joe the Plumber, his other name, makes me do it.

Dan(Miller)

Rather than give the comment editors work and act as childish as you, I will just deal with the matters at hand instead of pointing out what you are acting like in reference to the name.

"Where did I equate her demand with a law?"

Did you forgot writing this?:

"that's an attempt to deny Dan(Miller) his right to free speech."

Please explain how other than a law someone can have their free speech denied. Lisa doesn't grant anyone that right so she can't take it away. It was a request, plain and simple. She, and others, should get thicker skin. Dan can and most likely will ignore it. No reason to call the ACLU or to get on the Supreme Court docket.

That last part you quoted had nothing to do with what Dan said to her. If you read what she said, she took umbrage with his mocking her support of Obama. That's why she wrote "The fact that we support [Obama] is nothing to be made fun of." That isn't the same thing as "speak[ing] out against a government." Dan's "satire" didn't deal with speaking against the government and is probably why she set it off in a different paragraph, but I am only going off the words written in this thread.

Well Ruvy, it's not really that simple. The capacity in which Congresswoman Bachmann appeared on "Hardball" was as a representative of the RNC, and by extension, the McCain campaign. She was not speaking only as a representative of the Minnesota 6th District. She may have been speaking her own mind, but she did so on behalf of her party.

So, again, no, it's not that simple.

B

I'm with Ruvy, it IS that simple. If more people at the grassroots level took real stock of their respective member of Congress, they would throw the bums out.

Good Grief, you guys...... I am so glad I have better things to do than hang around and watch you argue over a sentence of mine.

It is pretty clear, Clav, that you have such a... well, whatever the hell it is, for me, that you can't even read anything I write anymore without taking me to task. Like I was calling for Dan's free speech rights to be taken away.

The point I was making was about his absolutely absurd Second Coming of Christ bullshit and the unfunny satire. And that being the reason Obama's supporters support him, which seems to be what so many of your Repubs want to think, even though you know it simply isn't true.

Wasn't clear? Oh well.

Have fun, guys. NO ONE on this list or anywhere else could possibly imagine I wish to take anyone's free speech away. If you have read one single word I have written you wouldn't even begin to imagine anything so ridiculous. Clav, you are either drunk or merely being your clever little (tiny) self again.

Obviously, as usual, you didn't even bother to read or digest my post... just decided to glom onto one sentence, for your own amusement.

Why don't you go pick on someone your own size. Ie, someone much much smaller than I am?

game, set, match.

OK, Lisa. I will no longer pick on you.

Some of us want a nation based on the liberal values of the Declaration of Independence and the founding fathers. Obama prefers one based on the illiberal values of the Communist Manifesto.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DAVE!!! Your Killing me!!!!!! LOL

I have pretty much given up on logical discourse...

Dan! Oh my word!!! This is thread is hilarious!

This from a guy who chose a moniker that means "the penis."

Hey, some of my favorite bands are named after penises...

Dave

Cindy D is right - again.

it's not really that simple. The capacity in which Congresswoman Bachmann appeared on "Hardball" was as a representative of the RNC, and by extension, the McCain campaign. She was not speaking only as a representative of the Minnesota 6th District. She may have been speaking her own mind, but she did so on behalf of her party.

Bottom line, Baritone. Representative Bachmann is playing hardball with the opposite aisle and it is ugly - but the opposite aisle has ben playing hardball with her aisle and it is equally ugly. She may "represent" the RNC in calling Obama unpatriotic, and that may bother you. But in the end, it is the voters in Anoka, Stearns, and the surrounding counties in the Minnesota Congressional 6th District who must decide her fate next month. She is accountable to them - not you or Nancy Pelosi, or even the RNC. And if they re-elect her, then it is evidence, among other things, that the majority of voting residents in the northern exurbs of the Twin Cities feel as she does about the Democratic messiah strutting around seeking the presidency in your country.

AND IT IS THAT SIMPLE. If that bothers you, it is too bad.

If only it were that simple here. We could throw out scads of traitors in our own parliament - scum who only look at he next bribe or the orders out of the American State Department (or the pigs at "J-Street") instead of actually representing us, the people of Israel.

She can not speak for her entire party. However, those questions are worthy for a liberal illuminati that has association or ties to a man who feels sourly about our country. Country is supposed to be first, so how can you associate with socialist who don't value America?

Ruvy,

You miss the point. Yes, she is answerable to her constituency in Minnesota, but in that moment on "Hardball" she was acting as a surrogate for George W. McCain and the RNC. If that's not the message they want out there, the onus is on the campaign and/or the party to stifle that crap or own it.

You and others keep making the "Messiah" reference. It's crap. Few Obama backers look upon him as a deliverer. We look upon him as a much better choice than McBooger. If you watch any of the McCrud rallies, you'll see that his "fans" are no less rabid than the craziest Obama devotees. At least Obama's crowd hasn't voiced the desire to kill McCainiac.

Ms. Know,

Being a socialist is not inherently anti-American.
Right wing nut jobs keep beating this dead horse. Apparently, unless Obama comes out openly recounting any and every second of every encounter he ever had with Ayers, including video and bathroom breaks, you'll assume that Obama was in a constant Vulcan mind meld with Ayers being fed a constant barrage of the Communist Manifesto and bomb construction plans.

If you want to consider that intense and prolonged contact with avowed communists is suspect, it is McBrainwashed who was in that very situation for over 5 years. As I suggested on another thread, McComrade just might be the real Manchurian candidate. What evil commie plots might be stored in the recesses of McBaldy's mind that will come to life when he first hears "Good morning, Mr. President?

B

If that's not the message they want out there, the onus is on the campaign and/or the party to stifle that crap or own it.

Then that is what this article should be about - the failure of the party to either stifle or own up to Michele Bachmann's remarks.

Being a socialist is not inherently anti-American. We are in volent agreement here. In addition, it is both parties that are espousing selected elements of state socialism in this campaign. The GOP (represented by the sitting administration) is on the verge of partially nationaizing the banking industry. And unless somebody does something, the banking industry will fall apart in America, and estimating the value of houses will become, for you, a matter of how many pelts or cars or something else that will be given for trade, rather than money.

Baritone,

Yesterday, on another thread I posted comment #45, with a link to Bill Ayers' website and to an address he delivered two years ago about the educational reforms instituted by President Chavez in Venezuela. I encouraged

people to read the address and decide whether Mr. Ayers' philosophy is relevant to Senator Obama's candidacy and, if so, whether this is the sort of educational reform which is desired in the United States.

Dan,

If and when Obama starts espousing Ayer's positions on education - actually Obama hasn't had a great deal to say thus far regarding education, - then we'll perhaps see just what, if any, influence the likes of Ayers has had on him.

What evidence is there that Obama was subject to any influence of Ayers? Is it assumed that since Obama was the younger, that he would automatically be somehow mesmerized by Ayers and his agenda? Does Obama seem somehow to you to be some kind of puppet? Why is there never a question regarding the possibility that McCain may have been thoroughly brainwashed by the VC commies during what was close and intense contact for over 5 years. More than one American POW succumbed to such pressure. I have suggested this lightly on a couple of threads, but the more I think about it, it does seem to me no less likely than Obama having been effectively "brainwashed" by Ayers, Dohrn, etal.

No doubt that Ayers is at least a serious socialist, perhaps even a communist. Obama is certainly a leftist. But there is absolutely no evidence that he has adopted Ayer's positions. All these accusations come down to desparation on the part of the Reps and the McCain campaign. They have nothing of substance left to offer. McCain can't realistically separate himself from the Bush failures in virtually every aspect of his administration.

McCain could still pull if off. A lot can happen in 15 days. Poll numbers tend to tighten up as the election get closer. It certainly doesn't look hopeful for McCain, but I won't count him out yet.

B

Baritone,

Fair enough. In view of the claims floating around that Mr. Ayers has had a substantial impact on Senator Obama's philosophy, educational and otherwise, I would very much like to hear either or both of them speak authoritatively on the subject. Unfortunately, that does not seem at all likely.

We dance around in a ring and suppose
While the secret sits in the middle and knows.

I know a fair amount about educational reform in Venezuela.

It is based on the works and pedagogical theories of Paulo Freire--who taught for awhile at Harvard while in exile from a US-backed military dictatorship in Brazil in the 60s.

The Paulo Freire Institute, originally opened in Sao Paulo, has been located at UCLA for several years--in the Graduate School of Education.

Freire consulted on literacy programs around the globe, and is perhaps best known for his book The Pedagogy of the Oppressed.

His famous statement, "All education is political" as well as his debunking of the "Banking information model of education", would be useful to apply in an analysis of the gringo No Child Left Behind Program.

I have used Freire's works in the classroom and in conferences since 2002, and was particularly pleased to see Venezuela's government begin using Freire's approach in the preschools there.

Dan,

As you suggest, Frost's sentiments are likely to be born out between now and November 4th.

Ayers has opted out of any involvement. Obama doesn't seem inclined to get into any further details regarding Ayers, ACORN or the rest of it.

Unless the numbers start to turn sharply against him demonstrably owing to these issues, it is very unlikely that Obama will respond any further with this stuff. Is he being less than candid? Perhaps. We may never know.

Obama has resisted being reactionary to McCain. He has maintained an arms length distance and has conducted his campaign on his own terms, rather than being jerked around by McCain. Obama is in the driver's seat with McCain sitting in the back trying in vain to get Obama to turn here or there. Obama remains his own man driving straight ahead focussed on his intended destination.

B

Dan(Miller) says:

"In view of the claims floating around that Mr. Ayers has had a substantial impact on Senator Obama's philosophy, educational and otherwise, I would very much like to hear either or both of them speak authoritatively on the subject."

Claim? What a stupid basis for discovery!

If some nut claims that McCain picked Palin because he was plucking her and really enjoyed it, would that justify an investigation?

How dumb can you be?

Slam on Obama may cost Republican

ST. PAUL, MINN. -- After saying on MSNBC's Hardball that Barack Obama "may have anti-American views," Republican U.S. Rep. Michele Bachmann finds herself fending off criticism from former Secretary of State Colin Powell, a Republican, and Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

The comments by Bachmann, R-Minn., uncorked a gusher of donations to her opponent.

Democrat Elwyn Tinklenberg said his campaign brought in $810,000 in less than 72 hours -- it took the former Minnesota state transportation commissioner a year to raise $1 million before that.

On Sunday, Bachmann told WCCO-TV in Minneapolis that her comments about Obama had been misread.

"I feel his views are concerning, and I'm calling on the media to investigate them," Bachmann told the station. "I'm not saying that his views are anti-American."

Yeah, sure you're not.

I'm sure Chicago isn't too happy with McCain after his remarks about their politics and Obama

People are tired of this crap. They seem to be taking their power back by funding the opponent of every right wing bastard that comes along.

Plain just said she would like to see a Federal ban on same sex marriage. Good for her. I hope that costs her a lot.

She's hanging with her base now. Doing interviews with the 700 club and other freaks.

Yeah, people like "Good Will" and "jkljkljkl", right?

I would say going over to other countries and apologizing for the United States is just a wee bit anti-American (a la Obama). I am sure that enthused terrorists groups. Isn't that why they flew planes into buildings??

I will agree there are alot of socialist views withing the left-wing illuminati. They have flat out said they will spread our wealth, and the associations are of terrorist and fraud organization. There is nothing wrong with being concerned, this people could run the country.

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